Curse

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 13, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Note: Can a mod change the title into "Discuss-Change (Secondary Profession,Armor Stats,Runes) while in towns"? Thank you!

Reference Threads:
==========================================
Secondary Profession:
01-30-2006 | Kai Nui | Final Straw On Secondary
06-05-2006 | Death3D | Guild Hall Additions!
04-29-2006 | =HT=Ingram |Profession Changer NPC Options
04-29-2006 | Trance Addict | Something that wouldn't be completely useless in a Guild Hall.
05-10-2006 | Lord Pharoah | Am I the only person who wants a profession changer in the guild hall?
05-25-2006 | deluxe | Profession Changer in Guildhall

Armor:
08-10-2006 | Cybah | Change your fow armor stats :: Price: 100k each time you change
08-06-2006 | Hella Good | Armor TYPEs change option in Nightfall?
07-10-2006 | Mouser | Anet: How about some armor storage?
07-14-2006 | Sarevok Thordin | Default Armor modification NPC
05-05-2006 | LifeInfusion | Armor modder
06-09-2006 | Pompeyfan | Armour crafter to change stats
05-20-2006 | Cybah | Make FOW armor stats changeable !? (closed thread)
02-17-2006 | Tien_ak | An Idea for armor
01-03-2006 | Unworthy Follower | Better armor.
01-01-2006 | KaptainKrash | Seperate armour look from its ability
11-13-2005 | Siren Danica | Which is more important - armor appearance or stats?
07-26-2005 | Lagg | Bonus for wearing complete armor "set"

With reference to the current and existing Guild Wars game mechanics:
We are able to:
1. learn all the skills for our characters
- If we have the required skill points and gold
- If we have unlocked them for our PvP-only characters

2. freely distribute our attribute points to our liking
- While we are in towns and or outposts
- Much thanks goes to the abolishment of the refund points system
- And to the community who voiced out and supported such change

3. change our secondary professions
- by talking to certain NPCs within the game

==========================================

What makes up a Guild Wars character?
1. Primary & Secondary Profession
2. Types of Armor Stats choosen
3. Types of Runes applied onto Armor
4. Choice of 8 Skills
5. Distribution of Attribute Points

==========================================

Now, image this, if one day, our characters are able to achieve total freedom of statistical functionality, how would you feel?

Say, one day, while your character is in towns or outposts, we are able to change our
1. Secondary Profession through the Hero Screen [H]
2. armor stats
3. runes

NOTE:
1. RPG characters can only change into Secondary Professions that they have learnt
2. For Armor Stats and Runes, it will involve:
- a series and quests
- all the necessary costs in terms of required crafting materials and gold
3. For PvP-only characters, Runes must be unlocked before they can change into those runes
4. etc.

Regarding points 1~3, if one day, while our characters are in towns or outposts, and not in combat areas, we are able to freely adjust those stats, without having to zone-map out to other places, (Change Secondary Profession through Hero Window)

And as for the different stats and runes on our armor, perhaps there would be a new "Armor Window", that would allow us to alter the functionality of our currently worn armor, in terms of modifying the numerical stats such as armor bonus modifiers and the types of runes currently applied to the armor, without having to change new armors.

PvP characters would no longer have to re-roll their characters to change new armor and runes combinations, or map to the Temple of Balthazar back and forth to change their Secondary Professions.

What do the rest of the community think about this?
Please do share your thoughts in this topic of discussion.

==========================================

Summary:
The main point that is being brought up in this thread is about the freedom of statistical alteration for our characters, both RPG and PvP-only.

Total freedom to alter our:
- Secondary Professions
- Armor Stats of
* Head Piece
* Chest Piece
* Pants
* Gloves
* Boots
- Runes applied onto any armor pieces
While the character is in towns or outposts.

For PvP-only characters, these features would be accessable straight away.

For RPG characters, they will have to earn it first, through a series of quests, and they must have all the necessary costs in terms of any required crafting materials and gold.

==========================================

Discuss.

================================
Feedback from the Community
================================
Supportive
==========================================
Bokocasso:
"I think that armor switching while you are in a combat should be removed. That goes for the pve chars."

Gimme Money Plzkthx:
"I think multiple armor sets and more weapons should be allowed for PvP characters."

Poison Ivy:
"would save everyone trips to the temple"

EternalTempest
"but that would greatly impact the rune market / crafting / materials market so I'm not sure if Anet would do so."
People would still continue to purchase new armor for aesthetic purposes, so I believe this would not be an issue to worry about.

As for implementation, ANET would consider impletation if there is enough support and demand for it.

"Even with limiting rune/job/armor changes to stuff unlock the drastic change Anet may not do .. or it would come to way latter."
We have 3 types of armor stats for the 6 core professions when Prophesies was released, with the release of Factions, 2 more professions, and 3 different more armor stats are added to the existing 6 core professions, totaling up to 8 professions, 6 different armor stats.

We will be getting 2 more professions with the release of Night Fall, and probably 3 different more armor stats for the 6 core professions.

The total would be 10 different professions, 9 different armor stats for the 6 core professions.

It would be very convenient for the players if we are able to change our secondary professions and our armor stats while our characters are in towns and outposts.

Of course, the players' characters would have to earn the ability to do so, probably through questing, which would be fair to everyone.

================================
Non Supportive
================================
majoho:
"No thanks - it has already been made easy-mode to change your secondary."

actionjack:
"There is a thing call getting-another-set-of-armor if you want to change."
There is a fact that storage capacity is extremely limited.

Why deny this, if the player has already earned it, for example, by questing, and by paying the necessary costs, which would be equivalent to crafting a new armor.

"It is one of the debate about should game be real easy and convient, vs. the some time necessary rule and regulartion and laws."
About the Secondary Profession Changer, it is about saving time.

Do you know how much time is wasted on those loading screens while zoning through maps?

About the Armor Stats, Runes being changable, that one is a proposed new mechanic, in which the majority of the community will find it hard to digest.

"And why should you have up to 4 differnt armor?"
Why should I not be able to? If I can afford it, and rightfully earned it.

"Isn't it part of the fun, especially in a RPG game, to achieve a set goal (in this class, getting new armor) with time-consuming playing over time?"
Isn't it
Isn't getting our armor fully upgraded to be able to change stats and runes fun also?

"Ask your self why you desire more than one set of armor (it is not necessary afterall), and follow that train of thought,"
I desire more than one set of armor stats, because I want more options.

While it might not be absolutely necessary, it would make life easier for RPG characters.

PvP-only characters can reroll if they wanted a new armorstats.

"you might come to the conlusion that it is a mechanic that the Dev put in as a so call "game play"
Existing "Game Mechanics" are subject to change:
- refund points no longer exist
- costs of skills are capped at 1k
- bosses are "stronger"
- etc

New "Game Mechanics" will be added:
- Crafting Materials Storage
- Profession Changer in Temple of Balthazar
- etc

"It would make game easy, but will it really make it more fun?"
One would still have to go through the process of "upgrading" one's armor to achieve the ability to change the stats and runes of its armor. It would make PvE life more convenient.

Players can still buy new armors for aesthetic purposes.

For me, more options, less time wasted between loading screens, is fun.

"too flexible of character change, as it cuts into much of character development, make each character less unique, allow people to eaiser change into the build of the latest fad,"
Characters would have the abilty to become more unique if they have more options regarding character development.

What makes up a Guild Wars character?
1. Primary & Secondary Profession
2. Types of Armor Stats choosen
3. Types of Runes applied onto Armor
4. Choice of 8 Skills
5. Distribution of Attribute Points

The 6th would be the aestheic appearance of the chosen armor.

For most of the RPG characters, point 2 & 3 are usually very limited, due to limited armor storage capacity, or insufficient funds. Point 1 is just very time consuming at the moment.

Guild Wars already support the "have it all", "own it all" concept with skills, our characters are able to learn all the skills, if they have the necessary skill points, and the gold.

"and might even decrease the game playablity because it make things less challenging and less to work-for."
Game re-playability would be increased, the quests to "upgrade" the armor can be made "challenging", and it would definitely be a lot to work for to have the armor fully "upgraded".

Bokocasso · Aug 13, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I would love to see real-time attribute and armor switching when it comes to PvP chars. Definately saves some time. But not while in combat. PvE chars are able to tweak their armor and attributes during a battle though, but that doesn't include freely reordering attributes as while you are in a town.

Code:

Say, one day, while not in combat, we are able to change our
1. Secondary Profession through the Hero Screen [H]
2. armor stats
3. runes

I support this idea with my two hands. But I think that armor switching while you are in a combat should be removed. That goes for the pve chars.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Aug 13, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Changing secondary profession in combat would be pointless, unless you are allowed to change skills too, and that would be overpowered. I think multiple armor sets and more weapons should be allowed for PvP characters.

Poison Ivy · Aug 13, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

^He said while NOT in combat.

And /signed for the idea, would save everyone trips to the temple.

Bokocasso · Aug 13, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Yep I like the whole idea of reducing the time you spend in rerolling. I also think that having some hotkeys for fast armor and attribute switching (pre-assigned) would be great to have as well. Of course not during any kind of a battle.

majoho · Aug 13, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

No thanks - it has already been made easy-mode to change your secondary.

Remember when the game came out you'd have to be 2/3 through the game to get to change your secondary and back then there was the refund points you had to deal with as well.

Obviously people will say positive things about this because they don't have the attention span to spend a couple of minutes doing this the 'hard' way *sigh*

sykoone · Aug 13, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

I think it would make the PvE game too easy. You could switch from a nuker, a healer, mm, edenial, or any other build in between mobs, depending on what was around the corner. It would take all the strategy out of the game. The downside would be if you were in the middle of changing secondaries and skills when a patrol jumped on you, you'd be stuck with useless skills, or attributes too low to make them effective.

However, for PvP only chars, I'm all for letting them switch secondaries in the arenas, without having to go to the temple to switch. As long as it happened in the waiting area, and not on the battlefield.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 13, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

I apologize for not being clear enough in the first post.
It should be "while the character is in towns or outposts", instead of "not in combat".

majoho,
If the RPG character has already the ability to change Secondary Professions, why deny the player the convenience of changing Secondary Professions through the Hero Screen [H] while the character is in towns or outposts?

It is not hard, but simply a waste of time. Having to go through multiple loading screens just to get a secondary profession changed is of course not hard at all, but it is time consuming.

sykoone,
I apologize for causing you to have mis-read and mis-understood the contents of the original post in this topic of discussion.

The truth itself · Aug 13, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

as said before /signed for the love of the non-exsistant metapsysical creatures out there.

Sekkira · Aug 13, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

I totally support this idea. RPG chars obviously have to earn their armour because of the skins and such, but when it comes to pvp, it's unlocked and they have pvp only access. I mean they can do it anyway, but rerolling the char for a slight change to the build is so inconvenient and a big time waster.

Ricebox · Aug 13, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

/signed

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 15, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

This thread is not receiving much feedback from the community, perhaps I was too brief in the original post.

Let us look this again:

================================

What makes up a Guild Wars character?
1. Primary & Secondary Profession
2. Types of Armor Stats choosen
3. Types of Runes applied onto Armor
4. Choice of 8 Skills
5. Distribution of Attribute Points

================================

Regarding points 1~3, if one day, while our characters are in towns or outposts, and not in combat areas, we are able to freely adjust those stats, without having to zone-map out to other places, (Change Secondary Profession through Hero Window)

And as for the different stats and runes on our armor, perhaps there would be a new "Armor Window", that would allow us to alter the functionality of our currently worn armor, in terms of modifying the numerical stats such as armor bonus modifiers and the types of runes currently applied to the armor, without having to change new armors.

Discuss.

EternalTempest · Aug 15, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

PvP side I think it would be great.

PvE - I would love to see that but that would greatly impact the rune market / crafting / materials market so I'm not sure if Anet would do so. Even with limiting rune/job/armor changes to stuff unlock the drastic change Anet may not do .. or it would come to way latter.

But your idea /Signed

I would still limit the changes to be in town only and not in zone / mission / pvp.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 17, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

"but that would greatly impact the rune market / crafting / materials market so I'm not sure if Anet would do so."
People would still continue to purchase new armor for aesthetic purposes, so I believe this would not be an issue to worry about.

As for implementation, ANET would consider impletation if there is enough support and demand for it.

"Even with limiting rune/job/armor changes to stuff unlock the drastic change Anet may not do .. or it would come to way latter."
We have 3 types of armor stats for the 6 core professions when Prophesies was released, with the release of Factions, 2 more professions, and 3 different more armor stats are added to the existing 6 core professions, totaling up to 8 professions, 6 different armor stats.

We will be getting 2 more professions with the release of Night Fall, and probably 3 different more armor stats for the 6 core professions.

The total would be 10 different professions, 9 different armor stats for the 6 core professions.

It would be very convenient for the players if we are able to change our secondary professions and our armor stats while our characters are in towns and outposts.

Of course, the players' characters would have to earn the ability to do so, probably through questing, which would be fair to everyone.

Discuss.

Jetdoc · Aug 17, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Say, one day, while your character is in towns or outposts, we are able to change our
1. Secondary Profession through the Hero Screen [H]
2. armor stats
3. runes

NOTE:
1. RPG characters can only change into Secondary Professions that they have learnt
2. For Armor Stats and Runes, they have earn it through questing, or other suitable means
3. For PvP-only characters, Runes must be unlocked before they can change into those runes
4. etc.

Regarding points 1~3, if one day, while our characters are in towns or outposts, and not in combat areas, we are able to freely adjust those stats, without having to zone-map out to other places, (Change Secondary Profession through Hero Window)

And as for the different stats and runes on our armor, perhaps there would be a new "Armor Window", that would allow us to alter the functionality of our currently worn armor, in terms of modifying the numerical stats such as armor bonus modifiers and the types of runes currently applied to the armor, without having to change new armors.

PvP characters would no longer have to re-roll their characters to change new armor and runes combinations, or map to the Temple of Balthazar back and forth to change their Secondary Professions.

This definitely should be moved to the Saredelac Sanitarium forum.

I absolutely agree that this should be allowed for PvP characters in order to avoid the hassle of rerolling them.

For PvE characters, the main problem I see with this idea is related to armor. The idea would work very well for the Canthan-based armors (since each armor skin has all the different modifier types available to it), but would not work for the Tyria-based armors.

In other words, 99% of the players would not choose some of the uglier-style armors (e.g. Male Warrior Gladiator's) if they could get whatever statistics they want on their armor.

I personally love the diversity in armors you see right now, which has somewhat diminished with the introduction of the Canthan armors (i.e. how many warriors do you see wearing 1.5K and 15K Kurzick?). That diversity makes playing the game unique/more enjoyable.

Love the idea on runes, though, as I find myself with 10 different armor pieces just for my rune setup. Seems like that should be switchable that character has unlocked that rune. Even the secondary switching seems like a good idea, albeit a bit lazy on our parts...

BowLad21 · Aug 17, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Pve characters deserve the ability to armor-swap because they spent the time moving themselves through the game. PvP characters were never meant to be equals, merely faster, and simpler for those who don't have a slot for a monk, etc.

lyra_song · Aug 17, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

I do not support switching secondaries, armor stats, or runes instantly with the H screen. Its doesnt feel RPGish.

I DO however support being allowed to change secondaries in MORE PLACES, armor stat changing NPCs, rune changing, NPCs, in a central location like guild hall or the battle isles.

actionjack · Aug 17, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Haha, you are a Jungle Guide.

anyhow... I won't mind seeing proffesional changer in H menu... althought too much flexablity might be troubsome for LFG. Easier to build a team, but longer to fix your build ("I am a R/N or Me or W LFG!")

I am at NO NO at changing armror stats and runes. There is a thing call getting-another-set-of-armor if you want to change. It is one of the debate about should game be real easy and convient, vs. the some time necessary rule and regulartion and laws. But it is those set restrictions that make a game a game.

Mordakai · Aug 17, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

At the very least, shouldn't we be able to change professions in every Chapter once we unlock the appropriate secondary?

I mean, mapping back to the desert, if your in Cantha, is a total pain, and vice versa if you've unlocked secondaries in Cantha, but are now in Tyria.

I would love to be able to swap Runes. I think you should be able to double-click on a Rune to un-attach it. I mean, we can change our attribute points, our secondaries, the only thing holding players back from being totally re-customizeable are Runes.

actionjack, it would make it a more fun game. Many of us don't have the money or inventory space for up to 4 different armor sets per character.

actionjack · Aug 17, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

actionjack, it would make it a more fun game. Many of us don't have the money or inventory space for up to 4 different armor sets per character.

And why should you have up to 4 differnt armor? Isn't it part of the fun, especially in a RPG game, to achieve a set goal (in this class, getting new armor) with time-consuming playing over time? Ask your self why you desire more than one set of armor (it is not necessary afterall), and follow that train of thought, you might come to the conlusion that it is a mechanic that the Dev put in as a so call "game play".

It would make game easy, but will it really make it more fun?

Personally I dislike too flexible of character change, as it cuts into much of character development, make each character less unique, allow people to eaiser change into the build of the latest fad, and might even decrease the game playablity because it make things less challenging and less to work-for.